Kevin Elliott  0:00  
Kevin, welcome to home safely, a podcast from the National Center for rural road safety. Hi everyone. I'm Kevin Elliot. I'm your host on the podcast, and I'm the marketing manager for the National Center for rural road safety. Each episode on our podcast will bring you stories, strategies and solutions that are helping communities across the country make their roads safer for everyone, whether you're behind the wheel, designing the road, or just a community member, we're all working together out there to get everyone home safely. Enjoy the episode. Hey everybody. I am here with Holly Kostrzewski, one of my favorite people in rural transportation safety. Holly spent 22 years working in tribal and state and federal and local road safety, and she is currently the founder and owner of Kostrzewski Consulting, where she's a keynote speaker and she's a consultant around the country, and she's just a wonderful person. So I'm very excited to have Holly on the show today, and she actually taught me a new term in rural road safety called frontier rural. And I'm going to have her talk about that, and I'll tell you that story. And Holly has a great personal story that brings her into this. So Holly, tell everybody about yourself a little bit and welcome to home safely.

Holly Kostrzewski  1:23  
Hi, Kevin. I'm so happy to be here because what do I always say? Rural is fun? So yeah, Frontier rural is less than seven people per square mile. And I'm so grateful that I have gotten so many people like you to start talking about frontier rural, because if we can fix traffic crashes and deaths and prevent deaths and serious injuries on frontier rural roads. We can fix them all. That's my personal philosophy. But I'm grateful to be here, and I have spent my whole career, as you said, in tribal state and federal service, working on rural and tribal roads.

Kevin Elliott  1:55  
Yeah, you told me this because I'm from a rural area. I'm in North Florida, where we have cow pastures and farms, and it's, you know, it's rural. And I remember you and I were talking about this one day. I said, I'm from a rural area. She said, No, no, you're from a rural area. I'm from a frontier rural area. I said, what is that? And you described it to me, just like you did to our audience. And then I didn't quite understand that. And then I was on a work trip one time in South Dakota, out in the middle of absolute nowhere, and for hours we drove and didn't see anything, and I went, Oh, this is what Holly meant by frontier rural. Tell me your story. Where'd you grow up, and why is rural and tribal road safety so important to you?

Holly Kostrzewski  2:35  
I grew up in a small frontier rural potato and grain farm in far northwestern Minnesota, Stephen Minnesota, S, T, E, P, H, E, N, about 40 miles from the Canadian border and 20 miles from the North Dakota border. I was in a motor vehicle crash when I was 18 at a frontier rural intersection, which now has a roundabout, but it took 25 years to get but I'm still so best day of my life was when that roundabout went in and but that's what I always say, that I did not choose my career. My career chose me, and I wanted to prevent motor vehicle crashes from occurring so nobody else had to go through the experience that my family did, physically, mentally, emotionally and financially, from living with a life changing injury from a motor vehicle crash.

Kevin Elliott  3:20  
I really like what you said that if we can solve this in frontier rural areas, well, we can solve it everywhere else. Tell people some of the challenges that rural and especially frontier rural communities face when they're trying to get ahead of of these deadly crashes that are happening on these roadways.

Holly Kostrzewski  3:40  
A lot of volunteers. That's who is our fire department. That's who is our ambulance. I grew up in a school that if the pagers went off for the ambulance or the firefighters, our teachers left. Our teachers were the firefighters. Our teachers were on the ambulance, and then the principal would bring us all to the gym and we'd all have class so our teachers could go fight the fire or work on the ambulance, whatever they had to do. And so if you think about that, there is often a conversation that we had when I was with Minnesota towards zero death, that you need to be found, right? If you're in a crash, you need to be found. There's it's hard to get the golden hour if you're not found. And so if it's many hours of waiting to be found, then you get then you call 911, then you get the services you need, and then you finally get to the hospital. But how many hours have passed? You need to be found first? And so in frontier, rural, that's tricky, and it's and so I love that we're talking whole blood, and we're talking about, you know, with safe systems approach, have these items on the rig so that when people are found, they can immediately get what they need before they get to the hospital, so that they have a better outcome in the end,

Kevin Elliott  4:47  
Crystal shell nut, we've had her on the show our mutual friend, Crystal shell nut. We love crystal, and she was the one who introduced me to this idea of whole blood and post crash care. In rural areas, in the in the importance of it. So for those folks who may have never heard that term, whole blood, and if you want to hear in depth, go listen to that episode with crystal shell nut, tell everybody why that's such a big deal. Because it may, I think people might be assume, I always assumed on, on a, on a, an ambulance or something, they would have, I don't know, pints of blood or something, but explain people why that's important?

Holly Kostrzewski  5:23  
Well, there's different levels of care. And if you're in a remote, rural part of the country, you don't have a paramedic, right? You have Volunteer Ambulance. Like I said there, there were my teachers or my minister growing up that were on the rig, and you know, they're volunteering their time and talent to become an ambulance, you know, to work on the ambulance and to help save lives. But for me, for instance, where I grew up, it's an hour to a level two trauma hospital going back again, you need to be found. And so it's so important to have as much education, experience and tools on the ambulance, so that when people are found that they have the best success rate as possible in my 20 years of working in the field, when I was at tribal and state, I worked 20 years in the field, and I only had one time where we had a golden hour, where somebody was found within the hour and brought to definitive care. Part of that was Minnesota has this great thing with the regional trauma advisory committees, and we made sure that we had auto launch, so you called that helicopter immediately if there was a serious injury crash, or to make sure that that helicopter were on the way to help sure that that person got to definitive care as soon as possible.

Kevin Elliott  6:38  
So the challenge this is after a crash happens, and obviously we don't want the crash to happen in the first place, if we can prevent that. Talk about some of the unique challenges on frontier, rural roads that make it difficult to prevent those crashes.

Holly Kostrzewski  6:58  
They're narrow, typically, they're not lit. They may not have all of the safety edges or rumble strips that other high utilized roads may have, and then there's not as many law enforcement available in other rural areas. Or maybe their shifts are different. Maybe you only have one person on for nights. We had 19 troopers for the Northwest region of the state. Not all 19 troopers can be across 11 counties at once, and they're not on all the time, right? And so you think about that. So then they're back up for each other, for their backup, for the cities that they work with and the sheriff's departments. And then if the ambulance are not paramedics, if they're BLS or ALS, then they are coming from, you know, their homes and their call, then they're going to the ambulance, and then they're driving to get there as fast as they can. But these are rural, remote areas, and in Minnesota, where I live, northern Minnesota, a lot of people like to come and visit they like to go the Boundary Waters. They like to go fishing in Canada. And we've had a lot of crashes where people have been tired on these two lane roads, and they're in an unfamiliar area. And so there's a lot of factors that go into it. And then finally, I can't say for the whole country, but for Minnesota, a lot of single vehicle crashes. So you've left the road by yourself, and then who's going to call if you've left the road by yourself, whether it was speeding or impairment or you're tired, why did you leave the road in the first place? And who's going to find you, and what time are they going to find you? How many hours are you going to have been sitting in that ditch or until somebody finds you? 

Kevin Elliott  8:29  
Okay, everybody, we're going to take a quick break, and then we'll be right back with Holly Kostrzewski. She is the keynote speaker and consultant from Kostrzewski Consulting, so we'll be back in just a minute. 

Kevin Elliott  8:44  
You might be listening to this podcast, but maybe you aren't familiar with the National Center for rural road safety. We're a Federal Highway Administration National Center for Excellence dedicated exclusively to saving lives on rural roads. We offer free training and technical assistance, monthly webinars and other content, all customized to life in rural communities. We are a national hub that equips local agencies, first responders and communities with the tools they need to make rural travel safer. Because we can't achieve zero deaths on America's roadways without addressing rural roadways together, we can make sure everyone gets home safely. Learn more at rural safety center.org.

Kevin Elliott  9:32  
And we're back with Holly Kostrzewski. You were one of the first people I met who exemplified the principles of the safe system approach, because you've done so many different things in your career. So for people who may be just tuning into this and they've never heard of this safe system approach idea, how do you explain that to people?

Holly Kostrzewski  9:54  
Well, I think it's what we've always been doing, they just finally put it all together. But. Interesting part that, and that has received a little bit of apprehension, I think, from the traffic safety community, is that the thought that people make mistakes, to actually admit that, that people make mistakes, and that's where I've spent my whole career. I've spent my career in behavioral traffic safety. How do we prevent them? Why did the person leave the road? Let's pretend there's not an infrastructure problem, just behaviorally. Why did they leave the road? You're not gonna leave the road if you're wearing your seat belt or not, but that's what's going to prevent if you leave your vehicle if you're in a crash. So I think that's really important to think about and to have the community's involvement, because in rural areas, they're very independent minded, and they've always had to rely on themselves and each other to get through hard things and hard times. And so to ask for help is not common. I had the most northern counties when I was with Minnesota towards zero death, and they bordered the Canadian border. And the farther away that you get from St Paul, the more and more independent people got, because they had to be, they're very resilient folk, and that's what rural folks are, as resilient and hardy. And so thinking about, you know, what behavior did this cause? Or why did the behavior cause that crash to occur, is a harder thing too, because there's a lot of drinking that usually happens in these rural areas. There's a lot of necessarily, they think that this, they don't need to wear a seat belt. And so how do you help have those conversations around to change and shift the culture when we're talking about traffic safety culture or positive community norming, how do we shift that culture so that people want to be safer? So like your podcast is called, so everyone gets home safely.

Kevin Elliott  11:39  
So for people who don't know what positive culture norming is, or maybe haven't heard of this positive culture framework that we that we talk a lot about in rural road, safety, what is that and how is that a new approach to communicating safety topics?

Holly Kostrzewski  11:57  
Positive community norming is messaging that is holistic and includes all of us. So most of us wear our seat belts, and you'll see, I've seen billboards with that. I'll have seen it on the bathroom the backs of the bathroom stalls. Most of us drive, drive sober. Most of us don't use our cell phone when we drive, versus the fear based campaigns, which sometimes people feel alienated or they feel bad about and they don't feel like they're included. So positive community norming is really nice because it's like most of us do this, and when people hear most of us are doing a safe practice, then they want to do that, right? Because most people want to be part of the club, and so most of us campaigns are really good for that.

Kevin Elliott  12:44  
Very good. And that's a big that's a big movement and transportation, safety, communication. So in your work, all those for you know, for a couple of decades, how did you work with people in these communities to build these coalitions? Because I think that's important out there, yeah, because I know you've done this, and you've told me how you you've gone and made untraditional partners, non traditional partners in these areas to build these cultures and build these teams. So if you're thinking of somebody in a in a frontier, rural area, and they feel overwhelmed, and they're like, What are we supposed to do? What are some things that you can recommend to them to build that team that can start to build a culture that will then hopefully make their roads safer.

Holly Kostrzewski  13:25  
I like to consider myself an interdisciplinary partnership expert, and I love doing that. I love collaborative work, and I have a philosophy that you need to look at the data and see where your problem is and be able to compare it to something, whether it's regionally other counties around you, or your state's data, just to see where you fit. But also don't compare yourself too much, because counties or regions have more resources than the next right. And so you have to start where you are right and go forward and then invite the people that you need at the table. And you need to have a champion that's a good facilitator at the at bringing everybody together while you review this data. But you also have to fundamentally look at what everybody's goals are, and what their goal is to be at that coalition or that group, and also what gifts they have, because all of us have gifts, and if you shine a light on that person's gifts, because the engineers are going to bring the data right and law enforcement are going to help you understand the behaviors, and EMS is going to help you understand the injuries, and education is going to try their best to wrap their arms around all of this and help prevent them, but you have to shine a light on each one of those professional gifts, and then they are more likely to come back and to feel successful if they're part of the group, because people only want to be a part of groups where they feel successful, right? And they feel like they're they are getting something from it, but they're giving something to it. And so that it's a, it's a, it's a tight rope to walk, but it's really important, because if you make everybody feel included. They're more likely to come back, and then your whole coalition is going to be more successful, because you do have all those different professions and those lenses that they're looking through at the table.

Kevin Elliott  15:09  
The core premise of the local road safety plans, that that FHWA and others do the road safety plans is the first step is build your team. And it's it is super interesting and especially relevant in rural areas, that as much technology as we have out there, as important as data are and getting information on where crashes are happening and roadway characteristics at the end of the day, it usually just comes down to just a small group of people that are just going to get together and talk to each other, but I think the important thing of what you've just said and have exemplified is you got to start those conversations.

Holly Kostrzewski  15:49  
And the other thing that's so important, especially in rural is that it's devastating when anybody's life is lost or when anybody is seriously injured, but when it happens in rural America, it's devastating for to the entire community, because that person played a specific, important role in that community, because there's fewer people and there's fewer people moving there, and so what happens when that family is affected, or that person is affected, the entire community suffers.

Kevin Elliott  16:17  
Everyone knows everyone out there. Yeah. I mean, it's always bad, but it's very personal. And so in that way, you can build the coalition's just think of those as a as a community that we do it all the time in rural areas. Build little, small groups of people who take on a problem and the countermeasures matter. All that should be put out at the end of the day, those little groups of people that own their community, that's their place, and their families and their loved ones have, maybe have more power than they think, to affect that change. So in your consultancy, you you spent two decades working with agencies around the country, and you've moved this over into your consultancy. So talk to me a little bit about the work you're doing there.

Holly Kostrzewski  17:04  
Yeah, it's been, it's been fun and different work, and it's exciting to use the, you know, 22 years of tribal, state and federal experience, 20 years in the field. Because I not everybody that has had federal experience has actually worked in the field. And I'm one of those unicorns that has had my feet on the ground in the field and seen what actually occurs and how you build it, instead of hearing the story later that, hey, they did a really cool thing in Minnesota. Well, I got to help build that really cool thing in Minnesota, and so I've been working on the behavioral sections of some strategic highway safety plans for states around the country, and I am working on several keynotes for different traffic safety conferences in the country. And I'm really excited about that, because I have always been in a government position where I'm always I'm speaking at conferences, but on the behalf of someone else versus now I can speak without being part of a government. I can just tell it like it is and say it what I saw. And so that's been very exciting for me to be able to share. I love to share, and I'd love to be helpful, and I love to connect others. So when I hear of a problem that a state is having, then I can say, you know who you really need to talk to, and then I can share a name or a group that's working on the same problem, because when people know that they're less alone, they feel stronger. And if they can see somebody else did it, or somebody else has the same problem, then they can help them. And so just to have actual field experience, share these stories, share what worked, share what didn't work. There's a lot of humor. There's a lot of humor. I mean, I one of my favorite stories ever is I used to present to 19 county boards every single year, and one county board, we were standing there proud. It was myself, an engineer from the state captain of the State Patrol, and the county engineer and the county commissioner took all of our paperwork while we were still talking and threw it in the trash can and said, We don't wear seat belts here. And I thought, well, now I'm just gonna have to print more flyers. I wish you just give me those back instead of throwing them in the trash. And the next year we came back and he said, You know what? Last year, two years. It was two years, I think later, he said, You know what you were. You told me I should wear my seat belt. But it didn't matter. But then my grandchild told me I should wear my seat belt, and now I wear my seat belt. Or once these counties get to know you in rural America, this was a county, several counties over from where I grew up. I walked in and they said, Oh, Holly from Steven is here. We'll listen to her. And so rural people are more likely to listen to other rural people than they are to listen to anybody else.

Kevin Elliott  19:53  
That's a lovely story, and it goes to this positive culture norming, right? If positive community, norm. If your daughter, your granddaughter, asks you to wear that seat belt, it's really hard to tell them, No, right? There's that social pressure, positive social pressure. Yeah, the I heard one time, and this resonated with me. Person said, you know, we talk a lot about peer pressure. We talk a lot about the pressure, but we don't talk enough about the peers. Yeah, because we say peer pressure, it could, we it has a negative connotation, but it can all if you get the right peers and they're pressuring you to do good things, right? That's a that's an incredibly powerful force. And if it's a granddaughter, well then...

Holly Kostrzewski  20:36  
Right? She can be. She's your peer. Because, I mean, there's never too many times. We can say, as soon as you've turned that kid forward in the car seat, they're watching you drive. So if you think that you're going to start talking about cell phones at 15 and 16 with your teen, forget it, because they started looking at two or three or four whenever you turn that car seat forward. They started to learn how to drive. So it's a little late to say, Do as I say, not as I do at that point, you just have to start practicing immediately. We all should be for whoever's riding in the car, for us, with us. All right, everybody.

Kevin Elliott  21:07  
We're gonna be back in just a minute. We're gonna take a little break, and then we'll come back with more from Holly Kostrzewski. 

Kevin Elliott  21:12  
Want to stay in the know on the latest rural road safety trainings, webinars and resources all in one place, join more than 30,000 professionals who get the National Center for Rural Road Safety bi weekly email newsletter. It's your quick digest of upcoming learning opportunities and safety innovations happening across the whole country. Sign up today at rural safety center.org and never miss a chance to make a difference. Now back to our show.

Kevin Elliott  21:45  
And we're back with Holly, kostky Holly. Now that we're back, I actually would like for you to talk about some of your tribal work, because not a lot of people had that experience, and it's a very it's a very special part of roadway safety. So talk about your work in tribal maybe what's special and different in those areas.

Holly Kostrzewski 22:08  
Oh, I'm so honored and grateful that that's how my career began. I had actually brought a program to the Fond du Lac Band of Lake Superior Chippewa, and this wonderful woman said to me, what are you going to do now that you're graduating from college? And I said, I don't know. And she said, I do. You're going to take my job. I'm moving to Alaska. And so she walked me into her boss's office at the Public Health Department at Fond du Lac, and she said, this is who's going to take my job. She has the heart of a traffic safety champion. And I, of course, still had to apply, still had to interview, but I did get the job, and I forever wish I still I always say her name, because I'm so I owe my whole career to Thompson, and for her to see this 22 year old that had pieced her life back together after a motor vehicle crash and gotten herself through college, and for her to see in me that I was a traffic safety champion, I Just wish that for more people, that we could just see people in the wild and say, Oh, they have a heart of a traffic safety champion. How can I, how can I help them get on this path? And then look at this career I've had. I mean, it's just crazy to me, because that woman, that stranger, saw in me, and so I loved working tribal. I've had the honor of working with tribes all over the country. I was in a fellowship with Indian Health Service, working in injury prevention, and then I was the state liaison for Minnesota with tribes, and then I was the tribe, the rural and tribal expert at NHTSA. And just the experience is different. It's similar to rural and frontier rural, because sometimes the needs are forgotten, and there's, there's a lot of need, and so how, how do you help? And so the data is tricky too, because it's not always there. And so I've always had the firm belief that it is the same problems that you see everywhere. We have four problems in traffic safety. We have impairment, we have distraction, we have speed, and we have a lack of seat belt usage. So sometimes it's okay to not have data and to figure out where, where the problem is. If they because they don't have to, it's so they're sovereign nations. They don't have to report their data to us, but you can still figure out where their problem is based on those four actions, and ask the people, where would you like to lead? Where would you like to go? What do you want to start with? I've always found that child passenger safety is a great place to start with. Tribal communities, because the children are so important, and everybody considers children, their children in tribal communities, and they want to take care of the young, and so that's a really good place to start if you're fortunate enough to have a tribal police department that's a good group to get to know, or if you do have engineering, but not everybody has these things, and so how do you work with them? And how do you build coalitions or build programming? And it's gotten a lot better over the 20 years. However, there's still gaps, and there's still needs. Out there that we could help improve on.

Kevin Elliott  25:02  
Yes, we've had Carrie Brown on the show from the Nevada LTAP, who's also a tribal member. We love Carrie. And she mentioned the same thing. Is that culturally, I mean, every culture, of course, values children and values their older people, of course, but in tribal areas, that's a that's a big priority the very young and the very old. And so she said that too is if you frame this around we need to protect those most vulnerable people. That really resonates for sure in those areas. What are some other areas that in tribal that make it, whether it's culturally or just geographically, resource wise, they are a sovereign nation, so just governmentally, they are fundamentally different than even your normal, say, county office or something like that. But what are some of the unique challenges they face when trying to solve their roadway safety problems?

Holly Kostrzewski  25:57  
Funding because of whether they have data if they have, if they have a data system in place. I mean, I think that in 2025 everybody thinks that everybody's on electronic records and not that's not the case. Some people are still doing paper records and paper audits, and so I think that that's another reason why I've always come to the thought that you have to take people where they at and help them grow, and you can't compare. There's no wrong or right. If you want to begin, they want to begin, and they're ready to begin. And so you have to take people where they are, and if they're ready, they're ready. And so there is no wrong way, wrong spot to start, a wrong place to start, just begin. And I know it sounds easier said than done, but it really is, because once you have a few people that are ready to begin. You have more than some. There's a lot of people in Indian Health Service. There's Indian health service area offices, and each area office has an injury prevention specialist, and that'd be a great resource to connect with to see which tribes are working on traffic safety or injury prevention, to see how you can collaborate. I've always dreamed of in Minnesota to have, like, a traffic safety coalition of just the tribes, a tribal trap traffic safety coalition, just to work on problems or needs. Because I know when I was tribal, it for worked for Fond du Lac, I was working on projects, but I had the other grantees from Indian health service that I could call up. So maybe I call somebody in Santa Fe or Albuquerque or at Navajo and say, Hey, I'm working on this too. What are you doing? Right? But so that people know what each other are working on. And I think with now that everybody's so comfortable with Zoom and teams, and you know, it's, it's more accessible for people now than 20 years ago to have the conversations and to help each other.

Kevin Elliott  27:45  
And that is recurring theme in this interview and in every other one, is we have all the technologies out there, and they are important, and we have all of the things that that make our lives easier and more accessible. And the solutions, at the end of the day, though, it's just humans talking to other humans and who really care about this stuff and are just trying to and the more we talk to each other, almost every single time, the better things get. Before we finish this interview, I'd like to ask you, like, is there anything we haven't talked about, anything in your work and your experience that you think is important for people to know about rural or tribal or frontier, rural, the safe system approach that we haven't mentioned, that people need to know about.

Holly Kostrzewski  28:28  
Well I've loved my career. I've had a blast. I've had so much fun. And I think that what I've often said is it's much easier for rural folks to understand big cities than it is for people in big cities to understand rural if you're from a big city or you're from one of the big government entities and you're trying to make decisions ensure that somebody from Frontier, rural America, from tribal America, is on that. And I'm not talking 10,000 people. I'm talking 500 people or less, and because that's so important, because it's really people in rural America, we've been to big cities, or at least we know of them, right? So you can get your you can wrap your brain around that. But I've had so many funny things people have said to me from big cities about rural America. For instance, somebody said, Well, can't you just take a train? And I said, we don't have trains. There's I can't, I can't take a train. I have to, I have to drive the eight hours. And in rural America, nobody thinks about that. You just drive the eight hours. You wouldn't consider it going on a plane. You just drive, and that's how you get there. And so I think that it's really important that whenever you're planning funding mechanisms, or if you're planning new programming to ensure that you have the right people at the table to help you make the decisions. Because we all have blind spots. And if you've never been to tribal nation, or if you've never been to frontier rural America, how you don't even know what your blind spots are, because none of us know what we don't know. It's really important to ensure that you have those folks around the table that can help you see this through.

Kevin Elliott  30:04  
Well, said that's a big goal of the National Center for rural road safety is to be a seat at the table advocating for have the rural perspective. Because 40 plus percent nationwide of our fatal crashes happen on rural roads, and in many states, especially the more rural you get, those rural roads account for sometimes upwards of 80% of their fatal crashes. It's a it's a very big part of our roadway safety crisis, and it deserves a voice and a seat at just about every table.

Holly Kostrzewski 30:37  
So the intersection that I had my crash on, I didn't know if in my lifetime, I would ever see it fixed. Yet I kept going because I didn't want anybody else to have that happen to them. And so I testified at legislatures. I was at every county board meeting that I oversaw. I was at city councils. I was working on that. And 25 years after I sustained my traumatic brain injury in a motor vehicle crash, I got to stand on top of the roundabout that went in. And big thanks to F, H, W, A, and to Polk County Highway Department and MnDOT rich Sanders, I have to give a shout out. It will forever be one of the greatest days of my entire life, not just because it was my intersection, but it was accumulation of all the work that I put forward for others and to ensure everybody gets home safely. And it just, I just don't want others to have to suffer the mental, the physical or the financial because serious injuries cost a fortune for the rest of your life. It's just, it's, it doesn't end. And so to see that roundabout and to think about the fact no other family will have to have that in that frontier, rural area, my part of the world that I grew up in is one of my proudest, shining moments of my career. wonderful.

Kevin Elliott  31:48  
That's wonderful. Everybody, just do the best you can in your little part of the world. And if we're all, if we're all doing that, then we're going to, we're going to solve this problem. Holly Holly Kostrzewski, thank you for being on home safely. You did. You were just as wonderful as I knew you would be, and I'm really happy to introduce you to our audience, because everybody needs to know. Holly K.

Holly Kostrzewski  32:12  
Thank you!  Happy to be here. 

Kevin Elliott  32:17  
Thanks for riding along with us on home safely. If you liked this episode, please subscribe, leave a review and share it with others who care about making rural roads safer. For more resources, training or upcoming events, visit us at rural safety center.org and until next time, stay safe. Stay connected, and let's all get home safely.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai